Reel Riots: Touch, Autonomy & The Comment Section - Resilience & Relationships (R&R) - Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders

In this episode of Resilience and Relationships, hosts Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders delve into the complexities of autonomy, boundaries, and the importance of allowing children to express their comfort levels in physical interactions. They discuss the backlash received from a controversial podcast episode, emphasizing the need for respectful dialogue and understanding in discussions about consent and familial affection. The conversation highlights personal experiences, societal expectations, and the significance of teaching children about their rights to say no, ultimately aiming to foster a safer environment for all.

Takeaways

The backlash from the podcast highlighted societal discomfort with discussions on autonomy.
Intrinsic value and human nature are central to understanding personal boundaries.
Children should be taught they have the right to say no to unwanted affection.
Healthy family dynamics include respecting children's comfort levels with physical touch.
Online discourse can often devolve into hostility rather than constructive dialogue.
Personal experiences shape our understanding of consent and boundaries.
Teaching children about consent can prevent future trauma and abuse.
Cultural differences influence perceptions of familial affection and respect.
Respectful disagreement is essential for healthy discussions.
The importance of emotional intelligence in navigating relationships. 

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Controversy
01:24 The Impact of Social Media Feedback
02:22 Understanding Boundaries and Consent
05:45 The Importance of Dialogue
12:20 Personal Stories and Their Impact
18:43 Cultural Perspectives on Affection
25:03 Conclusion and Call for Kindness
27:54 R&R Outro.mp4

Transcript

Stephanie Olson: 0:17

Hello and welcome to resilience and relationships. I'm Stephanie Olson. I'm here with Rebecca Saunders, awesome, yay. Okay, so this podcast was not planned. We did not have any intention to do this podcast until this weekend, when we found out that one of our reels got a lot of attention. So they say there is no bad press, but it was a little overwhelming the amount of comments that we got. We received a text from our marketing and content coordinator, and she said, just want to bring to your attention there are a lot of comments on one of the reels, and they are all negative. And I thought, Okay, what controversial reel did we post? We must have posted something about how it's important to snake handle and, you know, I don't know, wrap your children and something crazy. But no, it was the podcast on why it is important or the real that's that's what it is. What seems like a pretty mild statement to me, yes. So let's just play that reel really quickly so we can actually hear what it says. Ah, the controversy. There it is. You could have said, what a controversial message. Yes. Now, then it just went a little crazy. And I don't want to show all of the comments here, just because some of them are absolutely not appropriate. But look at the mad face. Can you see the Mad faces down here? Yeah, yeah. So we have some comments on this, and one of them, I love this one because of how we I love this one because of how we talk about intrinsic value. This thing that's referring to us, by the way, is not human. It's human nature to help and love. That is what one of them, some of them dropped massive F bombs. One of them called us a Nazi. Oh, here's a good one. You should be forbidden giving advice. Why do we have family? I love that one. That's good but oh, just stupid, yeah, literally, though, none of the comments, none of the comments were positive at first, which is

Unknown: 2:43

insane, so much reaching.

Stephanie Olson: 2:46

I don't even get it like I seriously am trying to wrap my brain around looking at that reel. Now, we didn't have the podcast attached to it, and we're going to start making sure that link is attached. But looking at just that real and saying, oh my gosh, these people aren't human because you should be forced to kiss grandma, or you should be forced to have someone touch you, if, if that's what other people want for you, child, I was blown away. I mean, they're just really hateful comments. And then one person posted something. Bodily autonomy starts at learning. Bodily autonomy starts at a very young age, the one brave soul, the one brave soul who conquered the negativity. In fact, this was kind of funny because one of them was actually in a different language. And Jessica said, Well, maybe this is a positive comment. And then she translated, and she was like, Nope, that is not positive. Okay. So fun, brave person. And then we got a few other people, and what was fascinating was in a couple of them, dialogs started happening, and one in particular where the guy originally just said something about how awful we are, and our post was ridiculous. The guy, I'm actually going to read it. I'm not going to share, but I'm I'm going to read this here. Okay, so this guy said wrong, you absolutely have to hug your grandma when she comes to visit. WTF is wrong with people today? Is this feminism? Okay? I'm just not even gonna respond to that. And then another person posted to that guy, this organization seeks to end human trafficking. A significant portion is carried out by relatives. If the kid doesn't want to kiss grandma or sit in a creepy uncle sits lap, let them say no, brilliant. Thank you. Yes. Shout out to Jeff. Is who we are. Shout. Out to and then this guy said, Absolutely agree that no child should be forced into unwanted touching, but children learn empathy, partly through reciprocal affection. There is a risk of the child losing out on lessons in compromise and emotional generosity and a lesson a lessening of familial emotional bonding. There probably is a healthy balance found somewhere between these two extremes. Jeff said, that's not what your OP said. And this guy said, that's because you made me think more deeply on the subject. Thank you for that.

Unknown: 5:43

That's exactly what we want. That's

Stephanie Olson: 5:44

great. Yes, and, and this is, and then we posted, hey, listen to the original podcast. You know, thank you for that dialog. That is what we want. We do not want people to be fighting and well, I mean, the whole intrinsic value piece, right? Is part of what we teach. No, I don't get it. So I love that a dialog was started. It was literally insanity in my mind. Some people still didn't agree. Okay, you know, here's the thing, my family unit now had a lot of trauma in my life, yes, but my current family unit is solid. Grandma is a safe place. We are blessed in that. And my kids want to hug Grandma, that's awesome, and Grandma wants to hug them. That's not the point at all. The point is, if our child doesn't want to hug or touch somebody, take grandma out of the mix. They shouldn't have to. And that includes parents when, when my son was 13 years old, he's such a hugger, and I love hugs from my son, even to this day, even now that he towers over me and but he has a great hugger. But when he was 13, that was the first time I went in for a hug, and he didn't want to give me a hug, and he turned away, and I was like, Oh, my mommy. Heart was broken. But if I would have said no, get over here and hug me right now, because that's what I want, I would be teaching him. You don't get to say no. Now we have a great relationship. He hugs me all the time. So I didn't teach him to lessen family bonds. I didn't teach him that hugging is something he should never do. I taught him he gets to choose, that we don't have to hug people. I Yeah, your thoughts like,

Unknown: 7:55

imagine that in an adult to adult interaction too. Like, if you're in a family reunion and, and you're, I don't know, cousin, someone you're not, like, super close to. It's like, Hey, give me a hug. And you're like, I'm good. And they're like, No, give me a hug. Yes, awkward. No one would look at that and say, That's a normal thing. No, remember that. Like, children are whole people too, and they have just as much of a right to decide if they want to give physical affection. And we also know that when kids are practicing setting these boundaries, it sets them up for future safety and success, right, right? And so this is one of the most loving things that we can do, is letting them practice setting those boundaries in a safe environment,

Stephanie Olson: 8:41

exactly, and I think that is the key piece. We are not at all saying kids shouldn't hug people. That's not what we're saying. Hugs, I'm a hugger. I love hugs. They're amazing. What we are saying is that if your child is uncomfortable hugging someone or touching them or allowing somebody doesn't have to be a hug, it can be whatever listen to them, because there is a reason behind that, and that reason could be, you know what? I don't feel good in my skin right now. I don't feel comfortable hugging you because I'm not comfortable right now. It could be, you know, I mean, you think about like, logistically, I don't logistically is probably not the right word. But think about when you have been sick or you have a fever. Touch feels terrible, like it, it hurt almost like a weird thing. So maybe there's something they can't communicate to you that they're experiencing that makes them not want to hug. But I think what is really important is after the. Exchange. We got an email. We got an email from somebody who had experienced this very thing in their childhood. And I want to share this because it is powerful. It's a it's a powerful email. And of course, this person did not feel comfortable posting this. No doubt why? I mean, seriously, I I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to jump into that fire fuel if you know, if you know, you're going to be attacked, right? So this is what this person emailed. And I think this is so important, just going to read it. When I was seven years old, my foster mom took my brother and me to JCPenney for professional photos. She didn't know that at the time, my older brother had been sexually abusing me for years, and I was very uncomfortable around him. The photographer, also unaware, asked me to pose for a picture sitting between his legs. I begged them not to make me do it, because I felt so uncomfortable being that close to him. After crying and pleading with both the photographer and my foster mom, I was still forced to take the photo, they wouldn't end the session until it was done. I wiped my tears, forced a smile, and got through it. To this day, my mom still has that picture hanging in her house, even after I explained why I looked so upset in it, my brother has the biggest smile while I'm clearly uncomfortable and pretending to be okay. That experience is why I believe every child deserves the right to say no, even to something that might seem harmless, like a hug or a photo, like I'm gonna cry. I know that is that is powerful, and my guess is the people that responded negatively, and I don't, I don't know this to be true. I think sometimes people respond negatively, even if they, you know, it's like that was a touchy subject to them to respond so viscerally to that real and so I was gonna say maybe people responded negatively because they don't understand, but I almost think the opposite might be true. They maybe they do understand, and it affected them in a way that really caught them off guard. I don't know, but that story says it all, and that is literally why we say we have to give kids the right to say no to those things, because we don't always know the full story well.

Unknown: 12:51

And the person who sent this in, I mean, I don't know that person's whole story, but I think it's a safe assumption to say that if you are in a family where you're being forced to have physical closeness, or I'm sure, at times, some type of affection with this person, you don't feel like you can disclose to those parents, right? This is a big deal. And so, I mean, there's just so many, so many ways that this can branch out and affect someone,

Stephanie Olson: 13:21

yeah, and I Well, no, please.

Unknown: 13:26

I think that sometimes we confuse refusing affection with disrespect, and that's just not true. We have to break that connection in our minds. Yeah, because I mean, with my kids, right? I don't force them to hug High Five anybody, but you will acknowledge another person that doesn't have to be and we can still work on being respectful, you know? We can wave goodbye, you know. But I think that we've been so conditioned, conditioned yes to you give hugs and kisses goodbye. That's

Stephanie Olson: 14:01

what you do. Yeah, it's true. It's yeah, it's it's really hard. I love this email, just thank you to the person who sent that after seeing this, and I really appreciate the vulnerability and willingness to share that story. I think we forget that we have a responsibility to protect children, that that's the bottom line. And interestingly enough, you know you said you made the comment that that this, you know, you don't know this person's whole story, and they didn't, probably didn't feel comfortable disclosing. But even after, because the writer said, even after I explained why that picture, why I look so uncomfortable in that picture, it still. Things on mom's wall. And so I think that's also very telling. I feel like I would want to burn it. Oh, just knowing. Yeah, I know. So the other thing I wanted to talk about with this very topic, though. So that's one piece, like, why we said what we said, and what it meant and and I'll stand by it. I'm sorry if you think we are feminist Nazis, which doesn't anywhere, doesn't go. But okay, I'm sorry if you think that you are entitled to your opinion. However, the hostility and the anger, I don't know, the just the hate that was brought out on us for saying this was striking, and we have to stop that. I mean, we did a whole podcast on, how do I do that? How we could Yes, how we communicate online, says a ton about you. Point point taken right there. If you're dropping F bombs or you're calling someone not human, like it is not human because we have an opinion that you disagree with. That's a problem, right? Let's talk about the issue, not the people, right, right? And you get to disagree. That is the beauty of all of this. You get to disagree. Now here's something also interesting. This was Facebook that all these comments came from, not Instagram, not LinkedIn, not YouTube, and so I do think that I don't know if there's a generation thing going on there. Obviously we don't know how old these people are, but, I mean, what are your thoughts there? I definitely think that there is more than likely a generational difference. We know that the Facebook crowd tends to skew a little bit older than you know who we're seeing on Instagram or Tiktok. And so I'm wondering, you know, how many of these it's well, this is what I grew up learning, right? This is what it needs to be. Or how many of the people who are offended by this are that family member who they feel maybe insecure about a relationship with a child in their life, a niece, nephew, grandchild, whoever, and so, no, I need you to affirm that we are close through this. Wow, that's a really good point. Yeah, because you just Yeah, you don't know. You, you just don't know now, I will also add that culturally, there are some differences. So, you know, we're in the US. Not all of these comments were US based, and I do recognize that there are cultures. And again, I'm not going to say this is right or wrong, but there are cultures that really hold on to that mindset that no the elders in our family or in our community or whatever deserve respect, and this respect looks like this. I know that's a thing and and that is a whole other topic, but, gosh, we just need to be respectful. You can disagree with everything we say, I have no problem with that. I would be happy even to have a dialog with you a healthy debate on this topic. And it would be kind of fun, actually. I say this loosely, but it would be fun to bring somebody on that completely disagrees with a topic and have a legitimate debate. Would be, I do too. I think that would be awesome. But the ground rules would be, you have to be respectful. You can't start attacking the human being for what they believe in, and you have to stick to the the topic at hand. So disagree with us all you want, but stick to the topic at hand and share with us in a very respectful way why you disagree. That would be my advice.

Unknown: 19:32

Yeah, I totally agree. Consider this an invitation email us. Yes.

Stephanie Olson: 19:39

That would be interesting. Now it wouldn't be live and we'd get a bleep. Thanks, but, but there is no reason to just drop the F bomb. Tell someone to f you because you disagree with them. Really, it is not and I. Don't even know why you're Are you sticking up for grandma? Is that what's happening? Because I'm personally a big fan of my grandma. When she was here. I'm really big fan of my kids grandma. I just Oh my gosh, it wasn't about grandma.

Unknown: 20:18

Like, at least as far as I've seen, anytime someone leaves a nasty comment, they don't even feel better either, like they're just literally helps no one I know. Does

Stephanie Olson: 20:31

that help somehow? F you? I feel really good about myself? No, you're absolutely right. It's ridiculous. So I think we're just all about protecting kids. That's it. We want to stop human trafficking before it starts. And there are some key things you can do to actually stop human trafficking before it starts. There really are legitimate things. One of them is teaching youth that they get to say no, teaching them consent, bodily autonomy, that is a thing and and here's the other thing, because you kind of brought this up about adults, so you think about all of the essay that happened all Over, the gymnastics coaches, the school teachers that all of the things and somehow, are you saying that that is okay if it's someone after a certain age? I honestly think it was because we were calling out family members and grandma but here's the reality, there are grandmas who are traffickers. There are grandmas who want to do harm. And so if you say every single it's like the role conversation, not all people in the roles they are are good, positive influences. There are family members that are dangerous. There are moms and dads that are dangerous. There are teachers, there are law enforcement officers, there are pastors. We have seen it over and over again, and that's why we teach people. It can't be a role that you're looking at to see who is a trustworthy person. It's gotta be those characteristics of a trustworthy person, not a role, right?

Unknown: 22:24

That is so true and so important, and I think, too, that we need to respect other people's relationships, like, just because I feel close to someone doesn't mean my daughter does.

Stephanie Olson: 22:34

Oh, great point, yes, and we don't know why that is. And I think that, you know, abuse happens in secret. It just does. We don't know. I so I was adopted by my dad. My bio father was a bad guy, abusive gone. My dad, who was an amazing man, adopted me when I was six years old. My mom is my bio mom, and there was a family member who treated me very differently than treated my siblings, who were my mom and dad's children, bio kids, and I never told anybody. It didn't happen in front of anybody. It happened all behind the scenes. It was just me, and it was me and this person in a room by ourselves when it happened, but because I didn't want to hurt anybody, I didn't say anything until I was an adult, and so I think we have to remember that whether it's abuse, whether it's treating someone poorly, whether it's whatever it is that happens behind closed doors, that happens in private children don't often or always, I should Say, disclose immediately for whatever reasons, for the family dynamics, for fear of something bad happening, whatever. And so I love the point that you just made, because you may have a really good relationship with somebody, and you might be completely unaware that this person is treating your child in a totally different way. Yeah. So we just have to remember that,

Unknown: 24:24

yeah, and I it's not to scare anyone, because I think sometimes this can feel just scary, you know, yeah, okay, well, I'm not in control of what's happening and what's it's there are lots of good people in the world too, but we need to be sensitive

Stephanie Olson: 24:41

and aware, right, right? So, interesting conversation. I just, I just, there's so this is a whole different topic, but it seems like there's so much anger out there right now, just so much anger. People are just angry, and I think it's just. Easy to take anger out on somebody you do not know, and you know that's making a public comment, but you know, we're real people. We're not bots. We have feelings, and I have thick skin, whatever, you know, but, but that's not the point. The point is that we want to protect children and stop being nasty to each other. Be kind. And I love that all of the people, and I just want to point this out, all of the people that disagreed with the the original post, the original people. So all the people that agreed with us, all of the people that were were commenting and and saying, Wait, think about it this way. We're so kind and so polite. So just give that some thought. You lose your argument, and you look rather foolish when that's your argument. F you.

Unknown: 26:06

I mean, right? That tells me that you don't actually have anything to say against what we're saying.

Stephanie Olson: 26:10

Yeah, exactly, yeah. So just be mindful of how you come across online. Ask questions. I you know, if you disagree with us, ask questions, sincere questions. Don't have to be a jerk. I just, I think that there is actually space for a very important dialog. And not everybody's going to agree with us. That's okay. That's okay. But when you disagree with somebody, disagree in a way that is respectful and and then, and then, think about what the person is actually saying. Because we're not saying grandma should never be hugged or kissed, not saying that I I think grandma should be if they're good people. Kiss your grandma if she's a good person, that's my but if she's not, you don't have to just guys say yes. Anything else on this? Rebecca, be nice and thank you again to the person who shared that really vulnerable story with us, that email that said it all, and that's exactly it's because of you that we do what we do. This is why we do what we do. So thank you for sharing your story. And yeah, let's just be respectful bodily autonomy. Whoa, good stuff, and give kids the opportunity to say no when it's important, because you never know there might be a really good reason they're saying no, and maybe just dig a little bit. So yeah, so with that, go get some R and R. We'll see you next time bye. You.