Jenny Toh, Empowering Introverted Women to Soar! Resilience in Life and Leadership Episode 044

Stephanie talks to Jenny Toh, a life coach empowering introverted women. Jenny shares a fascinating story of an introvert turning life coach. 

Jenny is an ICF ACC coach who is the director of River Life Coaching Pte. Ltd., her life coaching practice where she coaches individuals to define success on their own terms personally and professionally. Jenny is passionate about empowering introverted women to remain authentic. She is also a lawyer and a mother of three living in Singapore. 

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Everyone has resilience, but what does that mean and how to we use it in life and leadership? Join Stephanie Olson, expert in resiliency and trauma, every week as she talks to other experts living lives of resilience. Stephanie also shares her own stories of addictions, disordered eating, domestic and sexual violence, abandonment, and trauma; and shares the everyday struggles and joys of everyday life. As a wife, mom, and CEO she gives commentaries, and, sometimes a few rants, to shed light on what makes a person resilient. So, if you have experienced adversity in life in any way, and you want to learn how to better lead your family, your workplace, and, well, your life, this podcast is for you!

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Everyone has resilience, but what does that mean, and how do we use it in life and leadership? Join Stephanie Olson, an expert in resiliency and trauma, every week as she talks to other experts living lives of resilience. Stephanie also shares her own stories of addictions, disordered eating, domestic and sexual violence, abandonment, and trauma, and shares the everyday struggles and joys of everyday life. As a wife, mom, and CEO she gives commentaries and, sometimes, a few rants to shed light on what makes a person resilient. So, if you have experienced adversity in life in any way and want to learn how to better lead your family, your workplace, and, well, your life, this podcast is for you!

https://stephanieolson.com
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Transcript

Stephanie Olson: 0:03

Welcome to resilience in life and leadership with your host Stephanie Olson, speaker, author addictions sexual violence and resilience expert. I am Stephanie Olson Welcome to resilience in life and leadership. I am very happy to have Jenny toe with us. Jenny is an ICF. ACC coach who is the director of river life coaching her life coaching practice where she coaches individuals to define success on their own terms. Personally and professionally. Jenny is passionate about empowering introverted women to remain authentic. She is also a lawyer and a mother of three in Singapore. Welcome, Jenny. Hello, and welcome to resilience in life and leadership. And I am here with Jenny toe. Jenny, welcome to the show. I appreciate you coming on.

Jenny Toh: 0:54

Hi, Stephanie. Thanks for having me. And even before we started recording, we were discussing what time zones are we? Yes.

Stephanie Olson: 1:02

You are in a very different time. So you are in Singapore, and I am in Omaha, Nebraska. So it's 8am where you are right? It's 7pm where I am. So yeah,

Jenny Toh: 1:13

it's amazing, right. And when I've done podcasts for hosts in the US, it always seems to be my morning. So I'll tell them you know, I already know the future. So it's Friday morning over here. It's

Stephanie Olson: 1:25

how to go for me. It's gonna be fine. Yes. Excellent. Okay, that is good to hear any lottery tickets? I should

Jenny Toh: 1:33

wish I wish. I wish I could tell you that. The weather will be good. Okay.

Stephanie Olson: 1:40

Well, if it is, then you are a miracle worker, because it's failing where I am. Oh, no.

Jenny Toh: 1:48

This is wonderful that we can connect. Right? Yes, technology. And yeah,

Stephanie Olson: 1:52

I love it. i And I love the fact. I mean, COVID was a horrible thing. The pandemic has been terrible. But I think the one thing that has really given us as a world is just the ability to connect, I mean, we have that ability, but people weren't using it to their full advantage. And so to be able to have conversations, you know, with you and Singapore and me and Nebraska, I mean that that would have been unheard of years ago. So it's fantastic.

Jenny Toh: 2:22

And a belief that, you know, because we're both humans, right, there are commonalities. So So let's, let's see what we can explore.

Stephanie Olson: 2:29

I love it. Okay, so I absolutely love what you're doing, because I think it I have not heard a whole lot about coaches that are specifically coaching introverted women, and I think that is absolutely. It's absolutely fantastic. And really, what a what a great niche that you are in. So tell me, how did you come to this place in your life?

Jenny Toh: 2:59

Okay, okay. So that's like my story, I will. I like to think, you know, how can I shot the nets? To listeners, I didn't start off as a life coach, I, I am still a lawyer. So I've been in the legal industry for more than 25 years, I still do some legal consulting business on the site, because that is what challenges me intellectually. So that's, that's the rational part of me that stimulated, I went into coaching because I am a Christian. And I believe that this is what God has called me into in this season of my life. So of course, he caught me some time back, but me being rational and practical, I have a full time job. I've got a family with three kids. I'm like, No, right now. You know, I'm in my comfort zone. Well, don't don't talk to me about coaching. But the seed was planted the desire to coach and I find opportunities to coach in the organizations, although informally, and I find that that really energizes me when I see my subordinates getting from a good place, getting from good to great and being unstuck. So I'm thinking, okay, there is definitely something there. But there's also that fear of like, do I really want to go into this all, all of myself into it. So it was around when in 2018, that I felt that I couldn't put it off any longer. So I discussed my husband, we prayed about that. And that's when I decided to start training as a coach. So being a lawyer, as you know, Stephanie has a lot of things you need to comply with. Education Certification, you know, and all that. And when I researched on what does it take to be a life coach, you know, this, I didn't want to be an executive coach. I really wanted to impact people from the perspective of their life. Day to day. Yeah. And I found courses on Facebook as like, Okay. Sign up for 1499 costs and become a coder, but that's not for me. So I found this global organization called International Coaching Federation. So they don't run courses, but schools are accredited by them. And then from their website, I found a list of schools that are accredited. I explored them. I wanted to actually study in Singapore itself itself. However, the face to face classes for people who are working is at night, and I couldn't see how I could balance that because I need to be home with my kids and my family. So I discovered the school in Australia, and this was before COVID. And I was thinking, is this a scam? Because the investments quite big, that virtually so the lady who the salesperson was based in Hong Kong, I had lengthy conversations with her. And she said in the third call, that sales coach said, Jenny, why don't you take the leap of faith? And that was just it. I'm like, why am I doubting so much? So I went into the training that took about a year, and I got credential after shortly after that. And I was planning to launch my business in 2020, without knowing that the pandemic hits. So the pandemic hits, and I asked God, do I do this? Or do I still wait, then I reflected, I've actually waited quite a bit before I started this journey. And I just decided, okay, let's, let's just do it, because he's brought me this far. So let's just do it. It's definitely if I had waited, I will still be waiting now. Right? Because of my business, I'm happy to say it's actually two years old now, because I started in April 2020. So it's two years old now. So that's how I became a life coach. And in the beginning, when you're new, and you're starting your business, you just wanted to coach everyone, because there's this fear, like, you know, if I don't open up to everyone, no one's gonna know me. But that's the reverse is, is actually more true. Because when you get very focused on your message, you know, who you are really, you know, passionate about serving, it's not that I don't coach other people. But because I'm an introvert myself, and I know the struggles that an introvert goes through. That's when I feel that, you know, I don't want other introverts out there to feel that no one understands us, right? No one really gets us. So I may not have the same life experiences as each introvert because we're all different, but I do have some inkling of what goes on in their thinking and what they believe and all that. So that's why you know, I'm putting myself out there as a coach for introverts. However, the funny story is that my first client is, is an extrovert. I was in I think, in July, when I first started, and she saw me posting in LinkedIn, you know, about women empowerment, and about introversion, and she scheduled a discovery call me and she said to me, first off, I need to confess I'm an extrovert. Is that okay? That, that I didn't want to tell her that you're my first client. So yes,

Stephanie Olson: 7:47

yeah, I'll take it.

Jenny Toh: 7:50

And she's been a very faithful client. She's been promoting me on her own accord, you know, and things like that. And I really see that, you know, she's coaching has really benefited her as a person and as a positive ripple effect around her, because of the changes in her so. So again, as you can see, I'm very passionate about coaching, believe in the good work that it does in people. I love

Stephanie Olson: 8:15

that. So how do people find you? So you said you were on LinkedIn and and she reached out to you, is that typically how you promote your business?

Jenny Toh: 8:27

Yes, so I'm on LinkedIn, I am also on Facebook, I guess, because I coach introverted professional women, they tend to hang out in LinkedIn more often not to say that I don't have followers in Facebook, so they can find me on the river life coaching. That's my business. And also my name, Jenny, toe to H and I have a website, triple W river life coaching.com. I also run free webinars on I'm quite passionate about women empowerment, as well, as I run through webinars on gender bias issues. I did quite a lot of free webinars during either International Women's Day, last month, and that dad had quite a good turnout. So that one is not a marketing gig. For me, I'm doing it because I'm quite passionate, but it also helps because it gets people to know me, because, you know, if someone wants to partner with me as a coach, they need to know me first. Right? Absolutely. This kind of platform will get to know me, and that's why I'm also doing podcasts, so that people can know me and see who I really am.

Stephanie Olson: 9:29

That is That is great. That is great and hard for an introvert. Right? I mean, that is challenging. So I love actually and coaching is although it's, it's, you know, one on work, and it's very it's really about really getting the people you're coaching to determine what they need for their life. Isn't that is that correct?

Jenny Toh: 9:54

Yes. Yeah. So I think yeah, it will be worthwhile for me just explain a bit the differences between counseling coaching, mentoring, right and consulting. So consulting is quite easy because I don't think people confuse coaching and consulting consulting training is like I hire you, Stephanie uncoming. And you give me a solution. So there's no even talking about, you know, what can God do? And what can Stephanie provide for this situation, and you provide a solution. So that's consulting and training of courses, teaching. Mentoring is more like you are 510 years ahead of me in the same career, or in the same organization, and you mentor me by sharing your wisdom and your advice. So the hierarchy that's like, what mostly a parent child but the mentor is usually more

Stephanie Olson: 10:37

authority? And yeah, yeah, yes. Although there's this trend

Jenny Toh: 10:41

now about reversal mentor, which is, an older person gets mentored by a younger person, because the younger person is much more tech savvy. So I've been reading articles about reversal, mentoring, which is quite interesting. So those things have changed, right. So that's mentoring. And the closest to professions is probably being a therapist, counselor, and an a coach. And they often overlap because both help the individual get to a better place. The easiest way to understand it is for counseling is a deep rooted emotional issue, pain or trauma. And the counselor really goes back to the past helps you understand when was the first time this happened to you, and what when there and what was going on. And it's not that coaching doesn't explore anxiety or stress, or you know, some people say, I've got a mild case of depression by collegiate they just had a bad day. So we do go back in a bit just to explore, but when I hear that issue is really deep rooted, I will ask that person, have you seen a therapist? Would you consider seeing a therapist because I'm not a licensed counselor or therapist? I can't do that. So I am quite mindful about that. Yeah. So they want the person to heal from that emotional pain. And if that person has healed, then the person's like, Okay, I think I'm a good place. Now, I really don't know what to do next. And that's a good partnership with a coach, coach can come in and help you, okay, so you are dealing with things, you seem to be better. Now you can move forward, whether in life and a career or whether in your personal growth. So a coach comes and helps you reflect on what you appreciate today. So I really like to encourage my clients to appreciate their present because sometimes we're thinking, we regret our past. We look forward to our future, we kind of forgot what's happening to us right now. Like today now, doesn't matter. I just want to follow it. I'm looking at the back all the time, right. So a lot of my coaching sessions, I ask them what's going well for you today, and that stops them because they really have to think, Okay, what's going well, yeah, when they reflect what's going well, the energy changes, and they're more positive, and then we can say, Okay, today's good. What do you think can be better next month? What do you hope to achieve next month? So coaching moves forward, and it's more forward looking. It's not that we always push the clients to set goals forward. But I also realize that if you're moving through life aimlessly without a purpose, without goals, then everyday just seems meaningless. So at least if you have a goal, that's something to work towards to it's just human nature. Yes. Great.

Stephanie Olson: 13:11

So what is an introvert? I know we hear about introverts and and we there are so many people who would say they're introverts, but you might look at them. And one of them say, No, you are not an introvert. So what is an introvert?

Jenny Toh: 13:27

Okay, I'll explain what I've read and what I understand and what I experienced myself, and you tell me whether that's that's you or not, so a lot of people say, Oh, they're shy. So yes, I was a shy kid. But shyness is something you can learn to outgrow. Because as you grow older, you gain confidence and you see life differently. You can overcome shyness. introversion and extraversion is where you naturally draw your energy from. So an introvert I'm spending time with you. I'm talking to people in webinars then after that, if I really don't spend time by myself, locked myself in my room, keep my kids at bay and all that I actually get a headache so it's my energy is like so low that I get a headache I get grumpy so my kids know that. If I'm talking to a lot of people, I do need a sustained 20 minutes break. So I recharged by drawing internally and I like you know, just being quiet and just being an extrovert doesn't mean that they have to be with people 24/7 It's just an extrovert finds that they draw the energy from others. So when they're out with people, they get energized and when the evening is over, they still want to go home because the energy is there the pool, so they want to hang out a bit more. And I have a lot of friends who are extroverted and I always have to say, Okay, I've spent here I love you know, but before I understood this, I actually felt guilty. And I actually felt bad because I'm thinking I like these people, but I can't seem to carry on talking to them after a while. I really like some He's out because I, I find it difficult and I didn't understand where I draw my energy from that. So I went through this period of feeling very guilty, I have something wrong with me, you know what was wrong, you know, their social skills I need to pick up. And now I'm definitely more relaxed about it. And I also encourage your listeners or anyone who's hearing this and say that it's okay, we all have our thresholds. So even for extroverts, there is a threshold when right, okay, that's enough, right? Because we're all people, and introversion extroversion, we don't have to box ourselves in. So that's like a spectrum. So like you said, you being an introvert, no one would know you're an introvert because you are connected to your purpose. So when you speak passionately about what you do, and what you care about, that's where the introversion sort of, like mostly put aside, but you're willing to be extroverted for the purposes, right, you know, speaking into your purpose.

Stephanie Olson: 15:56

Yeah, that's so true. And for years, I actually assumed that I was an extrovert, because I've never really been shy. And, and just like you said, that's kind of the mindset, introverts are always shy. I had never really been shy, and I do well, in a crowd, I can, that working and things like that meeting people, it drains me, but I do it well. And so when, when I started to read a little bit about introverts and extroverts, and really started to look at that, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I am actually not an extrovert. I'm an introvert because I need when I get refueled, it's time by myself. It's being alone. It's, it's that, you know, I'll go speak to a group of people, and have a great time. And it's wonderful, but then I have got to be by myself. And exactly, yeah, that made so much sense. So people today, I will tell people, and I always add social introverts, so they, so they understand, but also you're not an introvert and like, Yes, really? I am.

Jenny Toh: 17:12

Yes, it's like, if you carry on talking with me for another hour or so, I'll be saying, I've got to go,

Stephanie Olson: 17:19

I will be. Exactly. That's exactly. It's like, okay, I'm done. I, my bedtime is like, you know, 830. So I'm good to go. So I do I love that. So what are the issues then? Especially when you're talking about women empowerment, and women and leadership or whatever that may be? What are some of the issues that introverts deal with?

Jenny Toh: 17:46

Because we're very reflective, and because we introspect a lot, and, and for women, we tend to be quite critical as well. So a lot of things remain in our head, right? We mull about that, and we toy about that in a world, everything else is going on externally. You don't put your ideas out. And sometimes the moment just passes. So I've coached clients who were told to be more visible by their manager who says that, you know, we really need to hear what you say, because I know you have things to say, but it's not coming up. And she feels that, you know, it's not 100% Good enough, you know, for her isn't good enough. So I coached them to not focus on themselves so much. Yes, you can introspect, you can mull about right. So introverts need a lot of preparation, especially for presentations or speaking of a meeting. So if the person has prepared, they will be able to speak out in meetings, there are challenges those brainstorming meetings are where you got meetings with extroverted, talking, extroverts just talking, there is no window of opportunity for them to speak up and to push themselves to be spontaneous and to speak up. They hold themselves back. So even for those kind of spontaneous meetings, you do need to plan so I practically effectual situation was that, you know, I told her, could you actually tell your manager to call on you? So I'm like, okay, okay, that's a great idea. you partner with your manager in the back like Mr. Meetings, the manager calls on you, and you know, that he will call on you, and you've prepared some things. So that's just for you to get that initial confidence, you know, you probably tell him that I feel bad. You know, not that comfortable to speak on my own yet, you know, especially if you're new to a team and your team is very extroverted, so he can call on us like, Stephanie, okay, we've heard about what Bob and John has said, what about you? What's your view on it? And then you speak and then you see how it goes. So a lot of times, I tell my clients that you need to shift the focus outwards. What is what is that person requiring of you? If the information if you're supposed to prepare a sales report? Does the person need to know like the origins of that particular product? Because if a sales guy, he just needs to know how can I pitch to my client and you are the Put up expert, right? So you don't need to be perfect. You could just give her three points. But she's saying that oh, yeah, but I need to be really certain of everything. I said that info if that is the purpose, that's more for you. It's not for that recipient. Right. So it's just understanding what the recipient of that information once Yeah. So I mean, these are just very practical things for the workplace, I guess in general, is tell yourself if I need to ask my question this question to myself many times when I started my business, and even now if I hold everything back in, who am I depriving of its benefits? So let's just say I'm talking about introversion, but I feel shy, or I feel awkward. I don't talk about that. So imagine all the listeners out there who are introverts who are struggling to say, whether we understand them, so I'm holding back this sharing, right, because as you know, when we talk about that we feel less alone, especially if someone like us definitely say, hey, yeah, Jamie, I know, I hear you, I get you and your listeners will be like, Wow, okay, someone else is going through the same thing as me. So when you focus on how you can help another person that will, you know, get you motivated to say what you need to say,

Stephanie Olson: 21:07

wow, you know, it's so interesting, because when my oldest was really young, she's 21 Now, and when she was she was in elementary school, she was so shy, you could almost see her turn into herself. I mean, it was just visible. And, and, you know, definitely, obviously a self confidence issue. That was that was being experienced, and she was a dish, she's a dancer. And so when she would go into a class, and there were, she would be, you know, really internal, and just very, and so I talked to her one day, and I said, you know, everyone in that room probably feels the exact same way you do, that they are feeling, you know, self conscious, they, especially for things like auditions, or they may not feel it, you know, secure in themselves, they may not have confidence. But the difference is how people display that. And some people go in and just display that with, you know, with confidence, whether they have it internally, or whether they're just portraying confidence, who knows. But having that conversation really changed the perception of what it means to be confident what it means to be shy, and that you can actually behave in a way that you don't feel internally and that it changed the trajectory of her dancing career. So I think that sometimes we we think we have to behave in a way that we feel, and we don't,

Jenny Toh: 23:09

that says beautiful, Stephanie, thanks for sharing that. And a lot of times is we can acknowledge that we feel these things like for example, your daughter in a dance audition, what is the purpose that she's therefore she's there to give her best for the transportation. So when you really reconnect with that purpose, it doesn't matter. You're not competing with others, you know, you just want to do your best if you let go of like being competitive or comparison. So I mean, unfortunately, you know, comparing yourself with others, it's very common. Yeah, we all do we all do. We all do it. We all do it. Yeah. If you visit a Facebook page, I remember, years ago, I was joking. My husband, I said, they have the nicest house that my husband said, would anyone post a messy living room? No, I think that the pandemic, that we were the pandemic, a lot of people have posted their messy living room, right? Because I think but before that for a nice living, right? My husband said, you know, people only post good things on social media. So even for adults like us, we tend to compare as well. So, a lot of times, introverts will introspect and like I'm not good enough, you know, she can do all that I can do all that so you are too much in yourself, recognize that you are thinking that and then focus on what you need to do whether it's at work or whether it's in your life, what is it that you really need to do if you keep holding yourself back? How would that feel one month down the road two months prior and that's what I asked myself when I was thinking about launching the business I was thinking no I've come this far right? If I don't do it, then the what if it's going to kill me, so I need to do it. Yes, it's scary. You You don't know what's really going to happen but you put yourself out there. Take one small step outside your comfort zone and before you know it that becomes your new comfort zone. You're like okay, why was I scared? You know, in the beginning, you push yourself one step outside Never tell my clients, okay? If you want to be a CEO in 10 years time, you know, start, start seeing what that looks like, Yes, it's good to just imagine that but then you, you work yourself backwards. If I want to be CEO in 10 years time, what skills do I need now? Right? Do I need to speak now? What do I need to do a bit differently now. So it can be small steps now leading up towards your big goal.

Stephanie Olson: 25:21

That's great. Now, how long do you typically work with a client?

Jenny Toh: 25:25

Oh, it depends, like what you said in the beginning is very client centric. So it depends on the client's goal. So I have had, like clients has come to me for two or three sessions, because they need to have a performance review conversation, that's all they needed, because they can discuss with their colleagues because it can go to the manager and say, let me bounce these ideas off of you. So that's very specific. So you don't need a long coaching session. Whereas there are clients who's been with me for six months and more, because they're thinking more about the life purpose, what they really want for their lives. And it covers all angles. Usually, women want to start with their careers, because they feel that that's where they need the most help. But after that, they realize that, okay, it's more than career. It's also personal growth. It's also how do I show up, as you know, in the family, whether your daughter, sister, a wife, or mother, you know, what's your role in the family, and some people feel that there must be more to this, I've got a good job. I've got a good family, but I want to give something to the community. So I've had people come to me and say, I need to do more, but I don't know what. Yeah, so so it's a lot of different topics that people bring. And I think ultimately, it's just trying to find, what's your identity? And in this place that you put in, yeah,

Stephanie Olson: 26:43

that's good. Is there any time where people would just continue coaching or coaching on this topic? Now, I'm going to move to this topic. And now I'm going to move to this topic that you have a coach for life? Well, you don't want to that's kind of the opposite of coaching, right?

Jenny Toh: 27:04

And I'm not saying I'm not saying like, it's like a parent child relationship, because a coach client relationship, we are equals, I'm your accountability partner. I'm your sounding board. I'm the one who's not in your life. And yet, you know, you are comfortable to tell me everything, possibly even things that you don't tell anyone else because its own your thoughts, especially for introverts, they don't tell these things to anyone else, because they're worried that what will people think? So that the power in coaching is providing this safe space of non judgement and really being empathetic? So, yes, there will, there will be issues where you think like, Okay, I'm done with this, I want to do this. I've coached clients who say, I've got top three things that I want to work on. So let's start. So the very focus, let's start with this first thing. And once we're done, work on the second day, I did this study. And the other hand, I've got clients who are like, I really don't know what to talk about. So can you tell me what I should be coached on? And I don't give the answers. I just tell them, Well, look at your life right now, you know, where do you think you add? What do you think you're really enjoying? What do you think you could improve? So we can have that kind of initial conversation for them to identify what areas they want to grow in? I think the beauty is when the client says, I don't need you anymore journey, because I'm good of all the things that we've talked about, I now know my own strengths, I now have the inner resources, I now know the direction, I might come back to you six months down the road. Baseball. So you can say is a start stop type of relationship. If you get a good foundation, you go ahead. And then you think that okay, maybe I want to come back and reevaluate my goals. But I don't believe in like, you know, I'm your lifelong coach. Because ultimately, it's your life, right? I am just here to help you for this season of your life.

Stephanie Olson: 28:50

You're kind of a guide, just to push it along the way. Yeah,

Jenny Toh: 28:55

I would say that I am your traveling partner, you will tell me where you want to go. So I'm never in the driver's seat. And now I'm in the passenger seat, you're driving and of course, you know, safety first. We talk a lot about trust and safety in a coaching session. So whatever you tell me is confidential and never be used anywhere else. So it's more like you're driving, you're so focused on the destination and say, why don't we stop for a while, take a break. See what's around you. And how do you feel? Because sometimes we're so focused, we are driving towards our goal, ignoring everything beside and for women, we rarely celebrate our successes. It's like I don't think I'm successful yet. What do you mean you're not successful? If your best friend looks at you right now, what would she say? It's easier for us to be kinder supportive, more empathetic towards others. We are so hard on ourselves.

Stephanie Olson: 29:47

Absolutely. Oh, wow. That's good. That's really good. So you have obviously come a long way in your life. You are successful, you are doing things that not only They really probably empower you but empower others. And that is amazing. What would you say to Little Jenny? Little Jenny?

Jenny Toh: 30:11

I do I do have little Jenny's. I mean, I have two girls and the younger me

Stephanie Olson: 30:17

right? Your Jedi? Yes, it's the little you that if you could go back and and give your little Jedi advice or you I guess what what would you say?

Jenny Toh: 30:31

Don't worry so much does if I reflect I worried a lot. And I think when I was, you know, really in the legal career, it was my training to look out for worst case scenarios, right. So in the professional side, I'm always looking for Worst case scenario so that I can plan my case, because I was a trial attorney. So it's always like, what's the person gonna say, you know, so I need to defend my case, I need to prepare my case, you know, so that it's foolproof. And then that trickle into life as well. Well, yeah, and training. But I think even as a child because I was shy and introverted, a lot of it was in my head. So I was always preparing. Like, if I say this, what will people think and all that so I worried a lot. And I think as I grew up, but that is still that trip, and I would tell my younger self, you know, don't worry so much things, things will work out. It may not work out the way you want it. Right. But it will work out some right. So that's what I'm telling myself when when you know, I start worrying again, then you know what's going to happen? Like, okay, you don't worry, God's got this. Yes. You just you just do your fun. Yes, do your part.

Stephanie Olson: 31:35

That is so I've just loved this conversation. I think what you do is so fascinating, because coaching, I mean, there are coaches all over, but to coach women that, you know, have that introverted, and obviously you can coach extroverts as well. But I think there is such an important piece to that. And what an amazing because it only an introvert truly would know how to really understand what another introvert is experiencing. And I think that is really powerful. I love that.

Jenny Toh: 32:16

We would never push another introvert to say go out there just yeah, just speak, do it. Yeah, just do it. It doesn't work. Yes, ultimately, the goal is to just do it. But I encourage my clients to reflect, you know how to do it in their own way. And yes, you may have to put on an extrovert that's but if it's like a half an hour meeting, that's when you put out your most extroverted self, but how do you regain your energy after that, so that you don't feel that? Oh, you know, I just put on a show. I'm so fake. It's not that you were extroverted for that period, because there was a purpose for it. What was that purpose? So you anchor in that purpose, clearly. Then after that you do what you need to get your energy back? Yeah,

Stephanie Olson: 33:00

that is really good. Okay, final question. What does resilience mean to you?

Jenny Toh: 33:09

Well, the standard dictionary meaning is the ability to bounce back, right? Interesting that you can share with us. I did run workshops on resilience in 2020. Because I think that was like the most like the trending topic. But yeah, people needed to hear that. And I was running webinars, I was doing workshop, and I asked someone, you know, what, do you think your? Are you resilient? And then she said, No, I'm not, you know, so I said, What do you understand by resilience that she said someone strong, and I'm not strong. So then I take her through her life experiences, what she went through really specific examples each moment and all that and after she said, all that, I said, I hear an extremely resilient person, because you went through ABCD and here you are today talking to me. And she was just dumbfounded. She said, I didn't know that was resilient. That was just me making the most of what I can. So people have a misconception that resilience is the strong man or the strong man who just brave through it all. No, we are all struggling is just that when life hits us, or life throws us a curveball what happens? Yes, you you get knocked down and you spend time being knocked down. But after that, if you're able to say, okay, what can I do with this? What can I learn or grow from this and then you take small steps to you know, to grow from it, or to learn from it or even to share your experiences from it. So a lot of people they did talk about this, what they go through, you know, in podcasts and blogs and for purposes of encouraging others to say that you're not alone. So for me resilience, we were all resilient. It's just that what what do you make of the circumstances that you're in whether you know, you, you bring yourself out of it, or you realize that I need help, that's also resilience because resilience doesn't mean, oh, I'm stuck in this by myself. I don't know, why do I'll just stay stuck. Resilience is also resourcefulness. So I'm stuck. I reached out to another coach Fred to say, Hey, I'm really stuck in what can I do? And then when we talk about that it helps. So yeah, I mean, it's very broad definition, I would say, you know, we're all resilient is just how you deal with the circumstances that you're in.

Stephanie Olson: 35:24

That is I love that. That is great. Now, Jenny one more time, how can people find you?

Jenny Toh: 35:30

Okay, so I have a website, triple W river life coaching.com. I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn under the company, which is real life coaching, or you can connect with me personally, as well under genital and I'm sure you gonna put all this in your show notes as

Stephanie Olson: 35:43

well. Absolutely. I want to do that. And I've just, I've loved this conversation. I appreciate what you're doing and what you've gone through. And now you're using that to help other people. I think that's fantastic. So thank you. I had a great time. I appreciate it. And I will be connecting with you. So thank you so much, and that me all right. And thank you for listening and being a part of resilience in life and leadership. We'll see you next time. Thank you for listening. Please share with anyone you think will benefit from this podcast.