My Steps to Sobriety with Dr. Stephan Neff: Resilience in Life and Leadership Episode 036

Stephanie has an insightful and engaging conversation with friend and co-recovering alcoholic Dr. Stephan Neff. 

Dr Stephan Neff is passionate about demystifying mental health problems and helping the people around him live a life so full of joy that yesterday is jealous of today. Born in Germany, Stephan has studied medicine at the prestigious Heidelberg University before travelling and working around the globe. Nowadays he has settled down as an anaesthetist in beautiful New Zealand and has become a bestselling author and advocate for mental health and addiction. 

He is uniquely qualified in this role. After all, a lifetime of trauma led Stephan to drown his sorrows, only to find that the critters can swim. As an alcoholic in recovery, he has experienced addiction and mental health problems first-hand. After successful rehabilitation, Stephan is now an expert in living a life so fantastic, that alcohol has simply no role to play. He shares this passion through his podcast, YouTube channel, and other social media (all titled "My Steps to Sobriety").

In his book "My steps to Sobriety" he shares the lessons he has learned as a doctor and as a man. And the truth is simple - The past does not equal the future. Every alcoholic can turn his life around, one little decision at a time. This book shows how to do it.

But would it not make sense to start earlier? Stephan believes that it is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. His creative partnership with Belinda Managh has led to the beautiful "Esmee the mindful mouse"-series, which addresses core beliefs that are laid down in early childhood. The adventures of Esmee and her friends allow the children to learn about emotions and mindfulness in a playful way and help grownups to put these life lessons into daily practice.

Social Media Links 

1.     https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ5Rgw59jOX4y3iDeMAXpwQ  (YouTube show)

2.     https://stephanneff.podbean.com/   (podcast) 

3.     https://www.facebook.com/stepstosobriety 

4.     https://www.instagram.com/stepstosobriety/

5.     https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephan-neff-author/

Everyone has resilience, but what does that mean and how to we use it in life and leadership? Join Stephanie Olson, expert in resiliency and trauma, every week as she talks to other experts living lives of resilience. Stephanie also shares her own stories of addictions, disordered eating, domestic and sexual violence, abandonment, and trauma; and shares the everyday struggles and joys of everyday life. As a wife, mom, and CEO she gives commentaries, and, sometimes a few rants, to shed light on what makes a person resilient. So, if you have experienced adversity in life in any way, and you want to learn how to better lead

Everyone has resilience, but what does that mean, and how do we use it in life and leadership? Join Stephanie Olson, an expert in resiliency and trauma, every week as she talks to other experts living lives of resilience. Stephanie also shares her own stories of addictions, disordered eating, domestic and sexual violence, abandonment, and trauma, and shares the everyday struggles and joys of everyday life. As a wife, mom, and CEO she gives commentaries and, sometimes, a few rants to shed light on what makes a person resilient. So, if you have experienced adversity in life in any way and want to learn how to better lead your family, your workplace, and, well, your life, this podcast is for you!

https://stephanieolson.com
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Transcript

Stephanie Olson: 0:03

Welcome to resilience in life and leadership with your host Stephanie Olson, speaker, author addictions sexual violence and resilience expert. Hello and welcome to resilience in life and leadership and I am here to welcome Dr. Stephen Neff to my show, who I consider now a friend after spending podcasts with him between his and mine. Dr. Stephen Neff is passionate about demystifying mental health problems and helping the people around him live a life so full of joy that yesterday is jealous of today. Born in Germany, Stefan has studied medicine at the prestigious Heidelberg University before travelling and working around the globe. Nowadays, he has settled down as a doctor in beautiful New Zealand and has become a best selling author and advocate for mental health and addiction. He is uniquely qualified in this role. After all, a lifetime of trauma led Stephen to drown his sorrows, only to find that the critters can swim. As an alcoholic and recovery he has experienced addiction and mental health problems firsthand. After successful rehabilitation, Stephen is now an expert and living a life so fantastic that alcohol is simply no role to play. He shares his passion through his podcast, YouTube channel and other social media, all titled My steps to sobriety and his book my steps to sobriety he shares the lessons he has learned as a doctor, and as a man. And the truth is simple. The past does not equal the future, every alcoholic can turn his life around one little decision at a time. And this book shows how to do it. And we welcome Dr. Stephen Neff. Hello, and welcome to resilience and life and leadership. I am so excited because I am here with Stephen Knapp. And I consider you my friend at this point, I had the wonderful opportunity to be on your podcast. And now I am thrilled that you are joining minds. So welcome, Stephen.

Stephan Neff: 2:09

Oh, it's an absolute honor. It's an a pleasure to be on your show. And I hope I can make I can help you in your mission to make this life a little bit better out there one interview at a time. So I'm honored to be part of that.

Stephanie Olson: 2:24

I love that. I love that. Now you have a podcast called my steps to sobriety. Tell us a little bit about how your journey began and how it got you to doing what you're doing now.

Stephan Neff: 2:40

Well, born in 66, I lived in my youth in Germany in the 80s. And and there was I mean, the degree of psychology input I had was basically watching Mel Gibson Lethal Weapon watching Bruce Willis. These were all the anti heroes that identified with so basically it was Yeah, exactly exactly. The best. The best Christmas film is Die Hard. Okay, so please, let's be clear about that. But I think the reality is that I've been from the word go alcohol was part and parcel after society in Germany. And it is an integral part and everything is sort of linked and weaved around the alcohol. Interestingly enough, alcohol did actually not come into my life much later, but first came to trauma and first came came assault a gang assault that I was the victim of which then turn and I was early teenager years, which then turned me quite dark. I brought the ringleader behind bars. He threatened revenge. And I thought okay, I've got three years whilst he's behind bars to get my shit together to turn from a little bit of a patchy teenager into this Bruce Lee fighting machine. And I did. And that was it was an interesting journey. But it was a very dark journey. So physically, I turned lean and and it was cool. But it was I was constantly on the lookout. And nowadays it was blatantly blatantly obvious it was PTSD. Then no one gave a damn about it. And about it really correct. So therefore, I've never had any psychological help needed from my parents who didn't know better, nor from the system, which hadn't had anything in place to help me. Not by myself. This wasn't this was before self help. Books really became big out there dismiss. I was basically left to my own devices and in my logical brain was okay, you're going to be a fighter. So work like one sort of four hours training a day, and then school and then and so on. That was all quite nice. But it was a darkness that had surrounded me. And then I was finished at school started university. And suddenly I discovered girls, and I discovered party. And I suddenly realized that when I have a drink, I can actually relax. And it was such a beautiful feeling. I could forget the trauma, I could forget the pain, I could actually let go and have us beautiful, all loved it. So I go home became my new friend. And I had a truly good social life. And I did what young men do when they are let loose out of the supervision of, of mommy and daddy. And there were lots of girls who were out of the supervision of their mommies and daddies. We had a very beautiful good times. And, yep, so an alcohol became part and parcel of that life. And it was, it was nice. So there was a time when alcohol was truly a friend of mine, and helped me to come out of my shell, to stop the shyness, to, to stop to, to really dis inhibit myself, so that I can finally be the person maybe who I wanted to be. And it was beautiful. So I must admit that, but life doesn't just give you roses and beautiful funny times, it gives you also more trauma, and maybe had more than than my fair share. So maybe not surprisingly, over the years, I relied more and more on alcohol. Because ultimately, I had not learned how to deal with negative emotions. I had not learned to recognize depression in myself, anxiety attacks, those kind of things. I had never been taught the principles of integrity, humility, I was a cocky little get I was, Oh, God. But that was the survival. That was that was me. I didn't, I didn't know it better. I had to be the best of the best of the best. And that, you know, that means laying as the as many women as I can. That means drinking as hard as I can. That means working as hard as I can. I always had an incredibly hard work ethic. So he was again, instead of dealing with problems and trauma. I was working and working, working, working, I distracted myself

Stephanie Olson: 7:34

kind of itself over and over and over.

Stephan Neff: 7:37

Absolutely. Absolutely. So you know, as a junior doctor, you do sort of rotations as a. So you do your university, and then you become a junior doctor. And the hospital system used to be the work six months rotations in let's say medicine and surgery, in eye surgery, etc. Now, for all of these six or six months, I made a principle that I do a publication at scientific publication every six months with someone there. And you have a step kind of not just doing crazy amount of work, but actually taking on more work. And constantly proving yourself constantly having to be the best. And it's a bloody exhausting, exhausting life. And when you're young, you can do it you work 16 hour days, and then you go out drinking. And that's cool for a while that works. Yeah. Well, that's right. That's right. And so again, trauma upon trauma upon trauma, and then for some trauma interest for good measure. And it is yeah, my drinking got worse and worse and worse. And that covered. I mean, that story covers now the better part of 20 years really, until my early 40s. When this not just wasn't a longer love affair with with alcohol, it was a very toxic marriage with alcohol that I was in. And it was really It dragged me down. And whilst I'd never had problems with the law, I never had problems run ins with with police for DUI or something like that. It was still I was I was working on a suicide in installments. I was just drinking myself stupid. And then luckily, my wife stood by me now she has got her own story with alcohol. She has got her own story with with trauma. She is just as broken as I am. And maybe therefore therefore we had our our crazy relationship. We had fantastic love life. And we had the most fantastic was mean. I mean, I mean you talk third world war on on steroids. That was our math marriage and it was just how the hell we did not get divorced. I do not know. We somehow survived all that craziness. And we are now fantastic partners. But bottom line is, I mean, there were many times when I was walking away, she was walking away, and somehow we stayed together. And Deb was equally when she got dry. She was to help off her church, and her newfound faith, she got her shit together. And while she didn't do as much counseling, etc, she still managed to stay sober. And then down the line, I was spiraling out of control. And she was instrumental in getting me admitted to a rehabilitation hospital and gave me the holiday of a lifetime, so to speak, 28 days, full board, and it was the most beautiful, and the most terrifying thing I had ever attempted. Because I had to now stop using alcohol as a band aid. Scary I had, oh, shit, yeah, I had to learn what emotions are. Because so far, whatever came up, I had numbed. So now I had to learn how does it feel like to be sad? How does it feel like to be angry? And to actually look at myself, and this is this was, this was scary. And None None of the rehab inmates was in any better place. We all hate it, the 10 o'clock emotions session where you sit around, and you're not allowed to hide that. You're sitting in a circle, and you're not allowed to have anything in your hands, no hats, no sunglasses, no nothing. And the facilitator just said, Money era, we do the emotion session, and then he shut up. And there was this leaden silence. And sooner or later, someone said something. And then somebody else said something. And sometimes there were funny things. And sometimes there were fights breaking out and it was all weird, but it was, it was we actually experienced the emotions, be looked into other people's eyes, they couldn't hide. We saw their emotions. And it was weird. It was weird, as if you're learning how to breathe, how to be a human being again, that was at this basic level. Yet. Here was a doctor. I mean, for Christ's sake, you should you fit you should think Well, I know what what emotions are. What depression is what PTSD is. Well, yes, I knew all the criteria. And I was very good in diagnosing it and others. I saw a mile away that someone was drinking in a mirror. I'm fine. That denial. Our denial is such a beautiful thing. And it's the hallmark of addiction. Denial know me, I know Joe down there he is. He has an alcohol. Look at me. I'm just a social drinker. Just kind

Stephanie Olson: 13:04

of a bag. I don't drink under a bridge on.

Stephan Neff: 13:09

Exactly. This shift make that my bucks fists are five of them in the morning for breakfast. That's just because I'm a I'm a social butterfly. Yeah, right. But you don't have guests around? Doesn't matter. I still Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I said that. Oh, God. But then again, there are still moments I can help them out, say, a can of beer, safe my life. And death was very early in my medical career in the former East Germany. So wall had come down. I was working very close to the Polish border. Saturday morning, after a long night shift. I jumped into the train to get back to Berlin. And I was alone I was was the end of the line, basically, where I jumped in. And I had to ship overnight and actually had beer with me, I bought myself a beer there. And in the morning, eight o'clock or so as that I sat there and had a beer. And next stop. Suddenly the doors come open. And they were maybe eight or 10 skinheads came in. So like me, but including the right wing tattoos and all the comfortable shoes so that he can kick some shit off someone. And they walked in, looked at me and thought to themselves all around me. So I there was no way I could get out. I just looked around, look back and snot keep drinking my beer and they all had to be around them. And it turned out that Saturday that we can take was a meeting of Neo Nazis in Berlin. They're all there to get pissed and beat the shit out of someone and have a good time. And the only reason that they sort of didn't really know what to do is I had this beer in my hand. Are you doing there? I said I'm a doctor looked around. And one guy says I don't like doctors. stamps, look what they did with my finger. And he basically had punched some on the finger was, you know, some weird because he had not looked after it, he probably didn't keep the cast on etc. And I said, I'm sorry to hear that made. But, you know, he has to that hopefully, you know, it gets straight again. And I swear to God without that beer, I would have been now mincemeat somewhere because they were practicing for the day, you know, warming up, so to speak. Fuck me. So, you know, sometimes you have to say alcohol and it's good in your life. If that becomes that becomes skinheads say exactly be ready. So I was on the cover, so to speak, or I was out of out of hiding, shall I say. But I mean, no fun aside, there was actually a true story. But I think the reality is, we keep forgetting that alcohol serves a purpose for many people out there. And when you then come into rehab, and you suddenly they take away that crutch. Now that's a very wobbly gait, you suddenly have about that crutch, and you need to learn to walk again. And that's exactly the brutal thing that happens to me. It is, it's very hard. What happens in rehab for those of you if you've never been aware of it the first few days as detox, because you're typically still on the bloody booze, or drugs, whatever it is. And the first few days, they actually get you through that. Not very pretty face. For many people, it is the mixture of a nasty bowel infection, or our gut infection, food poisoning, and other nasty flu. So you're feeling sick, like a dog vomiting, you know, goosebumps, sweating, your heart raises along your blood pressure's all over the show. It feels like shit. And for some people, it can be so extreme that they actually losing awareness of their own consciousness. So for them, they are in they're on lala land, and it's called delirium. And it can be very scary and it became become a medical emergency. Yeah, definitely. It is definitely it is so important that you, when you come off your booze, you come off slowly. And ideally, with the help of some because my life despite affected I'm a doctor, you would think I know about nutrition, again, what you do to your gut with your alcohol intake, it destroys so much. So you need when you come off the booze you need vitamins, left, right and center, especially a vitamin B, or B complex. God you need, you need tons of it, and zinc and selenium and so many other things. That's where doctors and rehab professionals come in, to help you to get physically over the physical damage that you have done to your body. And then once you're through that stage few days, then you are actually ready to take on the trauma inside of you, and start laying a new foundation to get you to let you smell to real world, a world where you don't numb your feelings where you actually need to learn how to have for example, sober fun. So in rehab,

Stephanie Olson: 18:31

which is which sounds impossible when you start that right,

Stephan Neff: 18:37

exactly. And it is so it's cool, because it was mandatory for us. Every Tuesday, we would go bowling, like it or lump it, it was forbidden to for you to stay home. And yeah, exactly. So and they basically forced us to go out and to actually socialize in a setting where there is no alcohol. And it was actually really, really cool. And if you were the best thing to enter that evening, you got a t shirt. And it's like that it was actually bloody good fun. But isn't it and but these kind of things were in rehab. We're not whilst it was mandatory on the Tuesday night. Everything else was a privilege that you had to work for. So for example, the first two weeks you are locked in. You are not allowed to leave the premises. Because inevitably you're a such a wounded animal. You very quickly read would relapse. That's so many people do do that. Then thereafter you are allowed, maybe on a shopping trip supervised and that's so bizarre. Again, I'm a doctor. I'm a judge. I'm a policeman. I'm an engineer. I'm a nurse. I'm a grown up i i ran my family. I have got three children that I brought up, and now you're telling me what to do. Yes, they do. Yes, they Do and there was a damn good reason for it. Because if you had gotten your shit together beforehand, then you wouldn't be in the mess that you're in. So they put you down, they humbled you, and not necessarily in a in a military style but a break everything down that was you and create a new fighting machine. Know, they break all the bullshit down and then see what actually is in there try to do to encourage the good things to integrity to your military and get rid of the bad things, the selfishness the all the other kind of negative emotions help you to get rid of those emotions and core beliefs that are so self destructive, that get built to shame, those kinds of negative things that just the wrong questions. Why me? Why me? Guess what your brain will give you answers. Yeah, it's really good in it, because that's what your brain does it is designed to, for you to get the answer immediately. So whatever you say, is or whatever you ask the brain, it will come up with an answer. So if you say, Why does it always happen to me? It will a say okay, it does always happens to him. It takes that as a statement, then he tries to find reasons why that is the case. And then we'll come back with Chatelet. That's right. And that's our sticking thinking our bat. And that's what you need to learn in, in any kind of improvement self self love program, 12 steps, whatever it is that you're dealing in life, you need to figure out, why are you actually in the mess that you are in. And that's that's that's Bloody hell, that's the rabbit warren, that's the Pandora's box that you open up in recovery. Because there are many reasons, many of them go back to your childhood. And it will be a challenge for you to explore that. It's hard. And no quick fix. Net. Sorry, sorry for all of you out there who are now used to the to the self service to the drive thru. Drive Thru everything I want it now. I'm sorry. That way, no, drama, trauma comes in layers. Healing comes in layers. So therefore your onion parallel, you know, you have to take one layer of the onion apart and then you find a bit of a rubber smelly bit of the onion and have to deal with that. Next layer. I'll share another bit of smelly and it's amazing how many how many smelly things you can find in your life. It's that I didn't have to dig deep but the mod kept digging them I found it it's just come on. But it is what it is. It is what it is we are we are full of trauma. And when we say trauma, everyone has sort of their their own immediate vision of trauma. Let's be quite clear, this is not a pissing contest. trauma can mean so many different things for so many different people. For some it is it it is neglect as a child where you had to be seen not hurt. For others it is the most brutal trauma such as rape as a child or as a young adult. For others it is war like situations. For others it is just a constant, constant level of toxic behavior that has hit them in their life. And it seemed never to go away. And unfortunately there are too many stories out there where we're victims of childhood abuse then become victims of ongoing abuse in adulthood. Because the patterns keep reemerging. It there's too many of that stories around. And but it is what it is. And these are the things that that you start discovering, in recovery. So rehab is the start of your recovery. Recovery is the process of creating a new life by taking small but constant steps in the right direction. So that one day you end up in a life where yesterday becomes jealous of today because you know that today is a new day. Right? And right now I'm exposing myself to a mental wreck Tosca p by you. That's not necessarily a very pleasant may I say. For many people, public speaking is one of the biggest tortures you could do. So there you go. So but here I have found my mother He's actually coming out. Actually. Yeah, it is, it is very similar to actually really opening up the windows and letting light into that dungeon. That is the life for many people. And the moment you start airing it out, suddenly distinct disappears, because you're actually taking steps to clean up dismiss. And what, what's the I'm full of trauma, that trauma doesn't define me. The trauma is not me. Yes, that has happened to me in the past. There's nothing I can do about that. But I have now the privilege to turn my story into a story of hope for others. And that's, that's my superpower. Therefore, I am now you know, it is no Spider was involved in biting me in no vat of radioactive material was harmed in the making of this superhero. But here I am. It is I'm proud of who I am. Every single bloody scar, every single bloody line around my eyes. That came with a price. And I'm proud of that. And that is so different from the man eight years ago, that was sort of came into rehab. I had, ya know, there's this crazy times and a transformation that I was allowed to have. And that I worked on so hard. As beautiful when I say work hard, not negative, not in a, in a sense of self flagellation. No, I just like when you fly an aeroplane, you fly from point A to point B, so Auckland, to Honolulu, let's say. And you know that 99% of the time, the aeroplane is actually off course. But that spare either the autopilot or the pilot will readjust the mission will readjust the course. And when drifts you a bit dead at school become a little bit back. And that is what recovery is all about. You look at who do you want to be? And you are not just vaguely I want to be healthy. I want to be wealthy. Now what does health actually mean for you? I want to lose weight to you. Okay, tell me, how much would you lose? I don't know. Well, I want to be exactly 100 kilogram, not 137 that I am right now. So I'm putting something there. And then already say why do I want to do that? I say well, I want to lose weight now. And to lose weight. That's already a negative connotation. To lose something to lose something is not very nice. You don't want to lose things. So maybe rephrase that into something positive. I want to gain flexibility and fitness, I want to gain a new found love for me working out. I want to gain those kind of things. So what I did is I had a dream, I created a vision. And now I create a mission to get there. And I tried to package it up positively. I don't want to die on a diet. I want to create a lifestyle where I eat in such a way that it nourishes me puts a smile on my face, because I look down and say wow, this is really healthy and it looks absolutely bloody gorgeous. As every color under the sun is in my on my salad here. I love it. And you know, that's good. And from now on then there will also be a cheesecake there. Okay, beautifully dripping in all kinds of luscious. And that's okay. Everything in moderation. But most of the time I will be actually looking out for myself I will be looking after myself. And that's recovery. You learn how to love yourself. You learn how to accept yourself. And that is powerful. That's, that's addictive. So that's an addiction. I want to have an I am proud of the addicted to live alive. And it's so beautiful.

Stephanie Olson: 29:19

It feels so freeing when you finally get to that place of sobriety and you think this feels so good, as opposed to what you had been dealing with. And I think that's what is so hard especially walking into that program or walking the thought of not oops

Stephan Neff: 29:47

I'm very very pleased that you can't see all of me because message to self close coffee pot before or you let a trip into your doctor? No, no, no, no, that was lukewarm coffee. That's fine. That's actually nice and refreshing. I should do that in every show. So you heard about wet t shirt contest see in New Zealand.

Stephanie Olson: 30:22

different thing. But back to your shirt. That was great. Well, um, yeah, I have no idea what I was saying cheese

Stephan Neff: 30:43

exactly, no, I will not send any pictures to any VIP guys that you can dream about that. Now. What is important? Look what has happened. I'm bloody international here podcast. And I poured freaking coffee over me. Can you imagine how I would have responded? The old me the angry me the resentful me. I would have flushed I would have been angry. I would have been. I don't know I would have fallen apart properly. And I would have asked how why does that happen to me? Yeah. And yeah, exactly. Now. So what has what has actually occurred? Yeah, I slipped my coffee was still open. Oh, got a bit of a wet trouser. So what? So what this is what is that in comparison with the true suffering, the pain that I've gone through? So nowadays, I can actually distinguish from true negativity true trauma, and what my catastrophizing brain wants to tell me. So that is the big difference. I now see what truly matters and what doesn't matter whatsoever. Okay, so this is, and this is this is the power of God grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference. That is the Serenity Prayer in a nutshell. But too many of us only paid lip service. They can maybe recite it, but they don't live it. That tear right now, that was living it. Because what can I do about it? Nothing? Can I actually use it to a positive to break the ice and make you blush? Hey, that's cool. I'll take it. That's a bonus. Yeah, that already happens on Stephanie's show. Yeah, see, that is actually you know, this is this is real life. And because that shit will happen. And it's just a matter how you respond to it, how you, you work with it. And that is that is a freedom, that I cherish this freedom of being able to choose my reaction. But the only way you can do that is because you've worked on the core beliefs that are deep down there that are driving you, and maybe driving you to do stupid things that are, I for sure had some are a core belief that told me Oh, my God, you're a failure. See, at that core belief would have been reinforced by me pouring coffee over myself. See, you're a failure. You can't even drink. You know, that kind of portrait. But now, in actual fact, I'm surprised that voice didn't even come up anywhere. I just had to laugh about myself when it happened. That it was this was actually beautiful. Yet in the past a debt rotten core believe would have come up to play and wouldn't have had a field day because I would affect it with all the guilt and shame and those kinds of things. And now you have to choice, roll with the punches and make the most out of it. And that is that is a good life.

Stephanie Olson: 33:59

I love that. I love that. You know, sometimes I find that people do two things with trauma. So they either because we all have trauma. All of us have some trauma in our lives at some point. But people either oh my gosh, I would never that never happened to me. I would I never had anything like that happened, or they do the opposite. My trauma is so much worse than your way it is not just sitting with what it was that you experienced that made you feel whatever feelings those were, because those feelings are sometimes really hard to feel.

Stephan Neff: 34:48

So true. And data certainly that was part and parcel of it. And I think it's the part and parcel of the disease of addiction and mental health problems that you catastrophize and debt that truly you actually believe it handled hard that you are the victim, and nothing could be worse than what has occurred to you. When I went into when I went into rehab, I had exactly that that belief system, and maybe quite rightly so because I had been done wrong by by an institution that was fighting against. And it was, it was, yeah, there were a lot of things that didn't go very well, there was a very toxic, toxic kind of setting. And I was consumed by that I could not see anything else. And so one day in week two, my case manager asked me, Can you write a letter to that institutional base and bring it tomorrow to your session, and we can go through it. And I did. So I went out there. And I wrote half of the night and pages after pages after pages. And I was ready to go ready here next day, and went in there. And I wanted to go in my new details. And she took two pieces of paper, folded them in half and put them to the side and said, brilliant. So now let's talk about you. And I said. And she said, yeah, that's yeah, no, I understand that. Let's talk about you. And I was angry with that woman. I was so angry. And I couldn't actually focus. I can't remember what we talked about in that session. I was pissed off and actually was quite outspoken against her in the next few days. But what she made me do is she said, hey, look, I've got a book for you. Come back tomorrow, I give you that book. That book was written by a woman who had married a husband from a different culture, and their marriage fell apart. And a husband out of honor decided to, in broad daylight, come back to her house, kill all her children in front of her with a knife and her her father, all in front of them in the driveway. And that all happens when you read a book, it happens in the first 15 pages. And there was before the trauma that I had, and I had nothing on that. And suddenly I realize, Wow, maybe I need to put things into perspective. So suddenly, my trauma paled in comparison. Now, I strongly disagree with comparing traumas, man is bigger than us. Bullshit. No, I hate that. But it gave me the perspective to step back and actually look at my trauma. And then the next thing that you need to do then is to actually step back and say, Okay, this trauma has occurred. Did I contribute to that trauma? What was my role in that whole scenario? And that is, that is the step four in the 12 step program, where you actually do a really brutal look, a deep inventory of what has occurred in your life. And oh, shit, yeah. So that isn't it. But also I did that. See, I mean, that was Christ. Eight years ago now, two years ago, I started writing my steps to sobriety, my book that is out in Amazon. And the first version was actually much darker and also much darken to cover. So this is this is the second edition now. But when I started writing, I wrote one chapter about postnatal depression. Because it's the book is all about also about the challenges that you will face in life. So I give you action plans that you might actually think about before it even hits you. You know, depression, anxiety, money, problems, all those kinds of things. So I had a chapter in there postnatal depression. And I thought this was actually a really well written chapter and I described the postnatal depression of my wife. So I, I thought it was well written and I gave it to her to read. Oh, boy, who boy, her recollection of her postnatal depression. Rod, a different perspective. Also, the amount of anger that I that that I experienced and that saw in her eyes, that was very clear, there was a lot of trauma that she had not yet dealt with, despite the fact that it is now nearly 20 years ago. There you go. So bottom line is, it is whenever you you start working on yourself. You you will find one trauma, you deal with it and you think actually you've dealt with all the traumas, and then suddenly something like that happens. Oh, boy, did I have to revisit things Things that I had forgotten things that I had forgotten from that time, which she held in front of my eyes. And I thought, oh, yeah, my mind didn't really want to remember that part where I was an asshole. In my story, I was the was the hero. That's right, I was there to support her. And I was, and she, her story is she is not lying. I'm not lying. But we have got different recollections of debt part of our lives. And it is so important when it when you are in recovery, that you start exploring those things. And that is where your power team comes in. Because you don't know what you don't know. So therefore, you need to talk to people who have been there who can listen to you what you're saying, but equally listened to what you're not saying. And maybe point you in the right right direction. And that is where a good life coach comes in. Or a psychologist, sometimes you need psychiatrists, because there are so there's so much trauma, and so much truly true mental unwellness mental illness, they're. So you need a whole bunch of people to actually help you. But that is the deal with the past. You don't need a whole bunch of people to help you create the future that you want and deserve. And for that you listen to people like us. So if I get my shit together, and Stephanie, she can get her shit together. Oh, no. must still be hopeful. You actually. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. Life is too short to

Stephanie Olson: 41:40

be humble enough to be able to look at that and receive that. Okay, maybe I'm not there. Yeah, maybe I'm not perfect yet. Maybe I need some help from other people. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephan Neff: 41:54

But also do I want to be perfect? Actually, no, because it means I've stopped, I become stagnant. And for me, it is beautiful to explore, to find new ways to find new insights. I'm a lifelong learner. And I want to learn about myself, I have learned so much already, but I've only just scratched the surface, let's be serious here. i There is so much more in me waiting to be are discovered, uncovered. There's so much energy waiting to be released. Because the moment I take that band aid off, it might hurt for a moment, but then that is a new kind of pain or feeling whatever it is, that will drive me forwards. So it's another little pull on the string of your bow. And sometimes it hurts, and you have to really pull hard and I'm gonna get I get pulled back. But then when it is released, my goodness, where will this arrow go? And that is the amazing thing that is I'm looking forward to that every single day, some thing you will push me forward. Right now sitting here with you, you honor me by by letting me share my story. And by sharing my story, I hear it the moment it is spoken out that it becomes a different kind of truth. It becomes that kind of more tangible, I can't take that word back. It is out of hiding. Therefore, it has come out it has freed me. It is it is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful feeling. It is yeah, it's a release in the nicest possible way. So

Stephanie Olson: 43:40

what are your thoughts? I know, our job is not to, you know, well, your job is as a doctor. But my job isn't to diagnose somebody else or tell somebody else. Yeah, that may be alcoholism. But what are your thoughts with the recent with the pandemic and the increase of drinking so much that I mean, it's almost become comical, you know, one day drinking or the jokes around zoom meetings and drinking on that.

Stephan Neff: 44:15

It's a very slippery slope. It's a very, it's very easy to numb yourself because you have got the trauma of abandonment, the trauma of solitary confinement, if you wanted to look at it in a negative way. Therefore, you don't know what to do. And for many people that is trauma, they have never learned how to deal with their negative emotions. Now they are no longer the workplace that distracts them. Now they have to come up with the self. Self, what is the word? Self control, to actually have a structured life to get up at eight in the morning at seven in the morning? actually do something. Get out of bed have a shower, do the right things, and then actually live a productive day. Now for many people that is, that is hard. For some people, it is actually really good that that happens, because many of us are sort of living at a brink of burnout. And then finally, actually coming off the hamster wheel. Because you can't go to work, then that can be a blessing in disguise, but you need to realize it for what it is. And if you actually have to spend one to three months on the couch, which eating junk food and watching binge watching Netflix, that might actually be just what the doctor ordered. So we need to be careful because the devil something. So self, self control is all quite good. But maybe maybe you have burned a candle too many times on both ends. And it is now time for you literally to crash and burn. Yeah. And if that is the case, I'm so pleased for you. That panned Demick one way or the other has given you that silver lining around the cloud. And this might just be what you needed. Having said that, to have a pity party is absolutely okay. And we all have it and we all should have it. We all should take time out from now and then to feel the negative thoughts. But don't pitch a tent over there. Okay, just just, you know, visit and then say, okay, cool. Thank you for the reminder. Thank you, I did not look after myself, I did not try me to self love that I needed to to stay well, therefore I'm paying the price now. So that's okay. That's that's really, really good. But now it's time for you to actually think, who do you want to be when you grow up. And if you have already a clear vision, then what stops you working on that? If you don't have a clear vision, then it's time to dream, then it's time for goal setting, then it's time to say okay, you're really pissed off with your life right now you have lost your job. Okay? What's the job really what you wanted to do in your life? Or what you actually want to do? Who are you? Most of us can't answer that. Right. So therefore, the biggest thing that you can do is actually do a, a targeted dreaming. Try to see what other roles in your life. And okay, you are a man of woman or you are a proud non gender non binary person. Just cool. So you've got a baseline dad's you? What are your roles now? So okay, you're a father, you're a partner, you're a son, you are a co worker, etc. A provider? Well, okay, so have a look at each of these roles and figure it out. Well, am i Are you happy with what you're doing in that role? There is that that beautiful emotional bank account. So if you're in a relationship with someone, you can't just constantly withdrawing from the bank account withdrawing, and never put anything in? Sorry, that will add Zune to her bank account, but says alright, you don't get anything from me.

Stephanie Olson: 48:20

Learning that with the real bank account world. All right.

Stephan Neff: 48:24

Exactly, exactly. But the same holds true with any relationship. If you actually don't, don't go out of your way and actually put something into that bank account. If you if you don't do anything, maybe don't be surprised that you're not in a happy marriage happy relationship. On the flip side, turn that around and say, Okay, thank you for the reminder. So what could I do five minutes each day, every day, no break five minutes only, we are focused on that relationship. They put me in that one day you wash up if there was something that you never do? Or that you go to their faults to washing, or that you write that little post it note and put it somewhere where he or she finds it. And I do that every day. Could you imagine that after 30 days, your relationship has changed, right? Probably your partner will think what the hell what's going on here? He never she never does that. But you know, if you were to put five minutes only five minutes into your relationship, would that change? If you do not do the same, let's say with your finances. And depending on where you are in life, how bad off you are right now with with COVID. You might think well I'm really struggling to buy a tin of can of baked beans. Well, that's cool. What can you sell? What can you sell? Do you really need all the junk that is in your garage? Or is there something you can put on eBay or however you want to sell and make a few dollars? Do you really know need all the subscriptions to magazines? And whatever you have got? Or can you save a few dollars there? Five minutes, one action point every day, you can do a bit more, but at least five minutes. So do you think after 30 days, your finances will look different? Well, I venture a guess and say yes. Okay. So now do that with all those single roles that you have your own fitness, don't go out there and roll for a marathon it yet? No. But why don't you actually walk once around the block? If you can? Or if you can't, then okay, what can you actually do? You know, you've you've heard about this planking? Well, okay, why don't you try it, try it two, three times a day, 10 seconds, and see if that works. And then see, you know, things like that. Never much, but never nothing either. Right. And very soon, it becomes a habit of you, you actually look forward to doing those five minutes. And inevitably, other five minutes, you will get more. So these are the options that the opportunities that such a forced reset, can give you. The flip side is of course, you can actually fall into the trap, see, I can let myself go now, I don't need to wash, I can stink because I don't need to see anyone. And I can, I don't really need to do that. I don't need to do that. So you start taking shortcuts on your health on everything else. And no one cares for a few days. If you drink in a morning, it might actually be a nice thing. I mean, you know, make something positive out of it. But then again, do you really want to be in that constant numbness, and then in that constant hangover, or anywhere in between? Some of us chose chose to in the past and choose now. And I guess that's the reason that you and I are having this talk to actually highlight that and actually say just hold a mirror in front of people's faces and say yes, it's a temptation. And for a few days, that's okay. Go on a holiday and some holidays are boozy. Does that nothing really wrong with that? Unless you make some stupid decisions whilst you're drunk? That you're coming home with some unwanted guests in in somewhere on your body? Or in your body? If your girl yeah, so not good? Yeah, exactly. So it's up to you guys. I think living with a consciousness and with our being being conscious about the privilege of living, that right now matters, etc. That is, that is the key thing that makes it beautiful for me. So for me to have a few days off, it's an absolute blessing. Because I now don't need to work. And I can work on other things that are want to work on. So therefore, if you again, rephrase it into something positive, then this can become very powerful. And I already hear some people out there as he can hear you from here in New Zealand. You saying What an asshole What a dick here. I don't know how to feed my family. I will not know if I ever got a job. Yeah, that's correct. And how many people were about my counter is how many people were exactly in this place, which was so outside of their comfort zone, that they actually had to start taking action. And by doing so they developed a habit of taking action, and ever so much in pain, that they actually now move forward. But they now not just tread water, like mad and just wasted energy. But they actually started swimming in one direction. Not around the circle or on around the circle in the hamster wheel. But actually you went one direction and you say, Well, why can't I be a coach? Why can't I open up my own film studio? Why can't I write a book? Why can't I? And

Stephanie Olson: 54:10

places Yeah,

Stephan Neff: 54:11

exactly. And I this and I actually asked a stupid question a series of stupid questions. Why can't I while the brain will tell you why you can't. What you should rather ask us. How can I? Yes. And what what stands in my way? I think that's a valid question. Because then you also have to address your own feelings that that stand in the way the imposter syndrome, all those kinds of things. But I mean, you know my steps, they're not they're they're steps. That's steps now that's all for Christ's sake I'm getting left or right mixed up. Two books. Debt, for Christ's sake debt one the steps to sobriety do which is a book I wrote two years ago that does a children's book behind me there, which is the adventures of estimated mindful mouse. So these are things, what do you have told me that three years ago that I would be writing a book about my mental health or the mental health of others? I would have thought you're kidding me? How stupid are you with me? Never. But here I am. And so the question is for you, who do you want to become? Yeah. So that is the truest, most important question. What is your why? Why do you want to be that different person? And then the question is, Who is this different person?

Stephanie Olson: 55:39

Right? Okay.

Stephan Neff: 55:41

And the moment you ask the right questions, and finding a countability, partner, you putting things in writing, maybe write a journal, and actually write those things down. And suddenly, David is black and white in front of you. Very powerful. I want to earn$112,000 Every year without me having to go to work. Okay, that's the goal. Cool. Next question, then as your brain says, Okay, well, how can we do that? And guess what, it will come up with ideas. And you might actually ask someone who has done something similar? And he says, What do you mean? 112,000? Why not? 12 million? And I didn't want to think this big. But no, no. You think big? You know, do you want? Do you want a marriage? That is? Okay. Yeah? Or do you want a marriage that is absolutely beautiful, where you can't wait to meet that person after a day at work, or you're going on a run, and you come back and you're sweaty and dripping, but you still want to hug this person? You know? That is the kind of a thing that is Dennis the relationship I want. Why settle for? Ashes? Okay. Yeah, no, no. Do that with every part of your life. And that is, exactly and I'm trying, and I've been, I've been very good when it came to my health, I've been very good when it came to my wealth. In my work, what I'm not good is still not good is my weight. So I'm still have good core beliefs that have so far stopped me, I still am an emotional over eater. So if stress hits me, then I fell in the past again and again, into the trap of using sugar, or high calorie items to actually make me feel good. Give me that immediate kind of, and not, not listening to my body really needed other things. So that's my journeys. That is something that we're I worked on this year. And, and I did so by completely changing my core belief. i My core belief, my absolute, the thing that I know to be true, is that there is nothing that will stand in my way of getting into shape this year. There is nothing that will stand in my way. And so therefore, that is, that is the core belief that I had really worked hard on. And data now allows me to move forward rather than exactly, rather than the thermostat that wants to go back to the 140 kilogram, because that's what I know. Right? What is comfortable. That's the certainty, the certainty there's there my brand knows, on a 40 year, you're a fat bastard. But you know exactly what it is. And that's it. To now actually change that, oh, change is not good. There's no uncertainty. How do we do that? You know, those kinds of things. But that is that is nature that is us. And that is where I get the privilege to learn every day, new techniques, new, get new insights, meet new people that become my mentors, or that gives me an insight where I say, hey, yeah, now that you say it that way. Hmm. How beautiful is that? Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it.

Stephanie Olson: 59:18

I love that. This. You are so much fun to talk to. And I love your wisdom. I love your journey. So thank you. You. So you shared a little bit about your books. Tell us about your podcast.

Stephan Neff: 59:32

All right. My steps. The sobriety is on YouTube as a YouTube channel and as a podcast. I bring on guests who have gone through hell and back and kept going. And I want to learn from them. How did they deal with their trauma, et cetera? So I asked a lot of questions behind the addiction. I look at the taboos at the prejudices on the trauma the D humans that are haunting us. Those are the things that are of interest to me. Yes, of course, there will be cases where we talk about the alcoholism, or we talk about the way how we have numbed ourselves, let it be sex, gambling, drugs, alcohol, work, sport, all these kind of things I bring on people who have gone through incredibly hard times. I have had two concentration camp survivors on my show, I had people who have lost absolutely everything. And then some, I've had people who had deaf sentences, to to disease, to to, to nasty traumas, who somehow have survived and now are sharing their stories. So there's these old stories of hope. Yes. And where people again and again proved to me that my mantra, the past does not equal the future is absolutely right. So therefore, that is what my show is all about. I'm coming back full circle to where I started off. Initially, there were no no interviews, it was me sharing my story. And it was sort of all a bit bit. Yeah, it was all about me. And I thought now, this is not about me. And this is this is about others. And I guess, to a degree, I started hiding behind my guests started hiding behind behind other stories. And ones are actually then engaged in rewriting steps to sobriety, and engaged in other projects. Other books that I'm currently offering are call offering, it became clear to me Stop hiding, stop hiding it is you have got a voice, you've got a message. It's time for that to come out. And so therefore, I'm coming full circle. So I'm continue with my beautiful guests. But I'm also doing solo sessions where I just share maybe five minutes of something that happened today, how I dealt with it, maybe, maybe I just threw the cut out after after coffee. That would be so but it is it is you know, it's that kind of shit, where you can actually share and and show people, hey, look, you know, it is just roll with the punches and move on. Yes, two steps back. But there will be there must be one step forward. And sometimes it's two free steps forward in a day to add school, take it and if it's two steps back, that's a shit day. Okay? So tomorrow is will be a new day. So guys out there, if you're interested to share your story on my podcast, within all means, have a look at that up my steps to sobriety.com. So that's a good hub, where you're going to find it as my website where you're going to find links to the books that I'm looking for CO offers at the moment, for my podcast, there is enrollment forms there for you to become a guest. And so we're asking you a few questions, to be able to get to know you a little bit better. And many, many other things. So it is dub dub dub.my steps, the sobriety.com, all written in one thing? And yeah, check it out. And, you know, let's, let's all come together, if you have a story to tell that that brings hope. And that has changed. Maybe another person's life already. And you feel wow, this is actually really beautiful. Then let me be of assistance. Let me be let me be another platform where we can can increase your voice and the reach of your voice. So yes, we are all there to make this world a little bit better. One interview at a time. And it's an amazing journey. So guys come on board if you want to.

Stephanie Olson: 1:03:49

That is fabulous. And it's so healing to tell your story. Yes, it helps other people but it's amazing how much it helps you as well. And you read my mind, I was going to ask you how people can find you. And you just answered my questions. So get out of there. You don't want to be

Stephan Neff: 1:04:09

it's a bit scary, isn't it? That happens that happens when you're in recovery that happens when you're together? Because it's sort of a brother and sisterhood that develops. We are we are we all have been bullshitters and you can't bullshit a bullshitter Okay, so we know each other. We know how we think.

Stephanie Olson: 1:04:33

special bond that is that there's yes that's so true. Final question, what does resilience mean to you?

Stephan Neff: 1:04:47

Resilience for me is to accept that there are things out there that I can't change and that there will be Moments of darkness in my life, there will be times when I'm not happy, there will be times when I'm incredibly sad and depressed, there will be times. And I hate it when toxic people come into my life, I can't do anything about that. But I can choose how I respond to dos challenges. Sometimes there, it's okay to just use consciousness and say, okay, he is really a dick. And you know, he's going through his own trauma. Okay, I understand it. There are other times when maybe you have to become a different person, that person that you don't really want others to see so much, to survivor, to person who would take a life without blinking in order to let you survive or let your family survive. That's okay. Sometimes these kinds of people need to come out to play as well. That is all resilience. Resilience means that you choose how you respond. And if it is a life and death you choose, right, and you protect your life. And you but also choose to look at an email and say, Well, yeah, thank you very much. Your brain tells me that this is life and death. But now, this email is not life and death, I'm sorry, nope, there is no, there is no immediate threat. So therefore, I don't need to go on to the warpath immediately. So that is resilience. Resilience is choosing your action, in response to what is coming at you at any moment in your life.

Stephanie Olson: 1:06:38

That's good. I love it. Thank you so much stuff on. It was just so wonderful to talk to you. And your story is brilliant, thank you, thank you for the work that you've done to really make a difference in other people's lives. So you're doing good stuff.

Stephan Neff: 1:06:59

And likewise, Stephanie, it's an honor for me to be on your show. And let's make this world a little bit better one action at a time. So if you have any ideas, how to collaborate, if you guys out there, have got any ideas how to collaborate, get in touch with us, get in touch with Stephanie with me and see just what is happening and build your own tribe. And who knows, maybe we can help this world. It bloody well needs it at the moment. So

Stephanie Olson: 1:07:26

I disagree with you on that one. Yes. Yes. Oh, thank you so much. And thank you for joining us on resilience in life and leadership. We'll see you next time. Thank you for listening. Please share with anyone you think will benefit from this podcast.